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Text File | 1993-03-14 | 27.9 KB | 873 lines

3/6/93 11:02:43 PM Opening "MUTChat Log 3/6/93" for recording. AFC Dennis : Hello Everybody ! AFC Dennis : One more person.....and then.... AFA Andrew : Hi, Sue, Don, Dave, Gene, Dennis, Steve, all! MEpstein : Hi AFC Dennis : We're off.....number twenty is here ! AFC Sue : Hi, Andy...how ya doin'? AFA Andrew : I'm alive, barely! :) AFC Dennis : Welcome to America Online and the Macintosh Utilities Forum. Your friendly MUT staff members are AFL Floyd, AFA Bob, AFA DaveAx,AFA JimW, AFA Andrew, AFC Borg, AFC SteveY, AFC DougM, AFC Paul, AFC Tag and AFC Dennis your MUT Conference Host. AFC Dennis : TONIGHTS TOPIC: COMPRESSION UTILITIES: Why Use Them ? You've heard lots about them. We all talk about them here. We've even had full scale debates online where each competing developer could not wait to answer the other's charge. What is it about these utilities that stimulate so much discussion and loyalty. Stick around here and find out. AFC Dennis : It's Saturday Night MUT Live. So welcome. Sit back and relax. During the conference we will give away a 3 free hours to a lucky winner. And one of the developers present tonight just IM'ed me with a generous donation of two Auto Doubler packages for two lucky winners tonight. AFC Dennis : Now it's time to telecommunicate ! But first.... a word about how we work at MUT. We will be using protocol tonight to make sure all get their chance at the microphone. Remember type ? for questions and ! for comments and we will call on you in order. Please add a GA when you finish your ... AFA GeneS : problem with PageMaker, you might wish to post a message in the Desktop Publishing Forum (keyword MDP), or contact Aldus directly by telephone. ga. ENFJ : thanks ga. :) AFC SteveY : Well, Ptenisnet didn't want to hang around, so, Big Man Joe, you're up! AFC Dennis : So is BigMan Joe next up ? AFC Paul : BigManJoe just left... Queue is empty AFC SteveY : AdGuy60108, you had a question? AFC Dennis : Ad Guy...are you here? AFC Dennis : Okay....where is Sys7...I think you are next. Sys7 : I use Autodoubler & CopyDoubler with a utility called Desktape. Is anyone aware of conflicts with... this combination? GA AFC Dennis : DHeller...GA DHeller : FGS isn't aware of any problems. Are you having some? Also, if you'll give me the manufacturer, we'd be happy to check it out.GA Sys7 : Thanks, yes I had a problem that only affected Autodoubled files, so I was concerned. Fortunately I did this under controlled situations, so nothing was lost. The MFR is Optima Technologies.ga DHeller : Thanks. AFC Dennis : Dagnar you are next. GA please. Dagnar : Is there any way to get Stuffit Deluxe 3.05 to Decompress files dloaded from AOL instead of the... the engine provided by AOL? GA AFC Dennis : AFC Steve. GA AFC SteveY : You need to select the AOL preferences from the Members menu (cmd-=) You can set the Downloading Preferences to TURN OFF auto unstuffing of files that are downloaded. ga Dagnar : But how do you get SDeluxe to decompress them automatically ? AFC SteveY : Ah, well, that can't be done...I use StuffIt Expander which can be set to periodically scan a folder and expand files. ga AFC Dennis : Is there a stuffit person here ? AFC Dennis : GA M. Epstein. MEpstein : StuffIt Expander can "watch" a folder to decompress files in it you can set that folder to your AOL Downloads folder. ga Dagnar : Thanks, I'll look into that. That'll work GA AFC Dennis : Okay. Donald....have a question for us. GA DonaldWay : When are we going to see something that allows us to *transparently* compress and decompress resources on the fly? It seems as if Apple has gone only part of the way here - what I want is the ability to compress my own resources, and have the OS do the decompression as the resources are loaded. Is this coming, or am I just dreaming? GA AFC Dennis : Who would like to answer that one. DHeller ? AFC Dennis : GA Steve. AFC SteveY : I will defer to Dave to discuss Auto Doubler Internal Compression if he is ready. Ok...the Auto Doubler Internal Compressor will compress the resources in applications, inits and...ga dave. DHeller : Sure. AutoDoubler comes with a program which will compresses resources in Applications, INIT's, and Control Panels. The resources are decompressed on the fly, but the compression process is manual. The compressed files are standalone and don't require AutoDoubler to decompress them. GA. AFC Dennis : (BTW folks. DHeller has donated two AutoDoubler packages for tonight's raffle) :) DonaldWay : But will I need to explicitly decompress the resource file before, say, I open it using ResEdit? GA AFC Dennis : Thanks Dave. Four your answer and your generosity. AFC Dennis : Okay take that follow up please. DHeller : No, not if a compressed INIT or Control Panel is running, or if ResEdit itself is compressed. GA AFC Dennis : Rook. It is now your turn to ask a question. GA please. DonaldWay : :\ AFC Dennis : Rook... AFC TAG : looks like Rook left AFC Dennis : Okay. to DATA Roger then we go. GA please. DataRoger : I have Stacker on a IBM at work which works totally invisible, I hear that AutoDoubler is not. True? AFC Dennis : DHeller....would you like to respond. If so GA AFC Dennis : Okay Steve is quick on the draw. GA AFC SteveY : AutoDoubler is just as transparent as Stacker. Both programs need to be installed, and have a certain. degree of setup required, but once set up, both work without further user intervention. ga AFC Dennis : So who would like to say something ? AFC Dennis : GA Donoho ADonoho : Auto Doubler has some probs w/ some apps I have had several voyager products not work well with AD. GA Bob Slo : <--? forgotten again :{) AFC Paul : I was just about to point out that we'd missed Bob Slo!! AFC Dennis : (never forgotten Bob....just not seen) :( AFC Dennis : Let's see....MEpstein...your comment to Donoho please. MEpstein : Actually AD is not as transparent as Stacker and similar products if you ever need to start up without extensions Stacker hard disks will be normal but with AD and similar products your icons and file types will be changed. Normally this doesn't matter, but it's not quite as transparent. ga AFC Dennis : MUT will be doing a special on STACKER when it is released Stay tuned for details. AFC Dennis : GA KentMarsh. KentMarsh : Return of the compression wars here? GA Bob Slo : (SORRY BUT WE LOST THE TEXT OF THE FIRS PART OF THE QUESTION WHICH HAD TO DO WITH THE APPEARANCE OF DISK DOUBLER ICONS) then all of a sudden they will all appear again! ga AFC SteveY : Dave, can you help Bob? AFC Dennis : (Ouch....Bob Slo swung hard !) :) DHeller : Sure... DiskDoubler isn't totally transparent where icons are concerned. It contains compressed representations of icons for popular packages. All of these icons are stored in the DiskDoubler Application. If the finder goofs it when rebuilding the desktop on DD App, then all of the icons for all of your compressed files will be generic. We've found a few bugs in System 7's desktop manager code, so this is not impossible. Are you running Sys 7? GA Bob Slo : No 6.0.7, and I don't keep the app on my hard disk just the init. ga DHeller : That's probably why then. You need to have DD app on the disk when rebuilding your desktop. GA AFC Dennis : Okay....I think we should move to DataRoger now. GA DataRoger : There is a technological difference between Stacker and AD compression, right? GA MindVision : Do you mean the compression algorithm of the general method of operation ? AFC Dennis : Data. that question is for you DataRoger : Sorry, method of op. GA AFC Dennis : MindVision...wish to continue your answer. If so GA MindVision : There are many different ways to implement compression on the Mac. Stacker works at the driver level. GA. AFC Dennis : Okay....next up is MacRight. What is your question please ? MacRight : If Microsoft wins its lawsuit against Stac, does this mean Stac might be forced out of business? AFC Dennis : MindVision....wish to take this one ? AFC Dennis : (or do we need a lawyer......AFC TAg...where are you ? AFC Dennis : (well someone have an opinion ?) DonaldWay : Kill the lawyers. (sorry, couldn't resist) AFC TAG : no comment AFC Dennis : Guess not MacRight.....we'll have to pass up your question. AFC Dennis : Next we go to MacIdeas.... AFC Dennis : do you have a non litigious question for us ? GA :) SharonJD : I resent the kill the layers comment some of us aren't bad. Sys7 : (I was wondering about the 'Juris D.' suffix...) AFC Dennis : DonaldWay...comment while I look for MacIdeas. GA DonaldWay : I'm sorry... kill was too strong of a word, and you're right, not all lawyers are bad.Just most.GA AFC Dennis : MacIdeas....your turn for a question. GA MacIdeas7 : Thanks! I was under the impression that the new Stuffit Lite is supposed to work on "PKZip" files as well as ".sit" files. So far, I have had no success. Is there atrick to it? ga AFC Dennis : Okay DaveAX....your comment please. AFA DaveAx : The UnZip translator is part of StuffIt Deluxe, not StuffIt Lite but there are several other unzipping utilities in the MUT libraries for your delectation! ga MacIdeas7 : Oh! I just need to pay more, right? Or DL from the library... I'll try that first! Thanks - GA AFC Dennis : DataRoger....a comment please GA DataRoger : Are there any compatibility problems with AD and de-frag utilities like CP DiskOptimizer. GA. AFC Dennis : DHeller please comment. DHeller : We've had reports of problems with early versions of the SUM optimizer, but none (that I know of) with CP optimizer. We do recommend you reboot from a floppy when optimizing your hard disk. GA AFC Dennis : AFC Tag what is your non-legal matter question ? AFC TAG : I use AD&DD and backup to a 2d HD. When I boot from the bu HD, says AD&DD need to be reinstalled:( AFC TAG : Does some compression utility not require this? GA AFC Dennis : DHeller...GA DHeller : This "feature" was removed in AD 2.0, DD 3.7.7. GA AFC Dennis : DataRoger....you have a question.....just before our weekly raffle DataRoger : I have witnessed on a friend's Mac with AD running that when After Dark kicks in, the screens begin to slow down greatly. I have seen it de-installed to verify that AD is causing this. GA AFC Dennis : GA Dave Heller. AFC SteveY : Well folks, I've gotta take off!! See you all later! DHeller : I assume AD is actively compressing at this time. Other than that, AD shouldn't slow down After Dark at all. GA AFC Dennis : Back again, ouch this hurts ! (SEQUENCE OF TEXT LOST A BIT HERE TOO, SORRY !) DHeller : This is a bug in SpeedyFinder 7 which the author has fixed, but I believe those versions are available to registered users. The latest public release (1.5.4) does not fix the problem. GA AFC Paul : Renegade, you had a comment? Please GA. (Then it's prize time!) Welcome home, Dennis! ;) Renegade 2 : sorry that I'm late. Does anyone know anything about "Times Two" disk compression software? AFC Paul : Renegade, I don't think anyone from Golden Triangle is here tonight. Anyone else have a comment? Renegade 2 : ooops, forgot the GA Renegade 2 : thanks, just thought I'd ask before I buy. GA AFC Paul : (Dennis, you have the Com!) AFC Dennis : MindVision...your comment please. MindVision : Wait for Stacker, please :-) MindVision : Disclaimer: I wrote Stacker. AFC Dennis : Let's wait folks.....now its time (Ithink) for our raffle tonight .Right folks ? AFC Dennis : Okay MacRight. your first...then the raffle. Bob Slo : Yes!!! Me!! PLEASE!!!!! MacRight : I think Times Two operates at the driver level so it expands the disk size rather than compressing individual files. AFC Dennis : Thank you MacRight. Now to the raffle. Let's see....who can we ask to pull the magic number out of the electronic hat ! AFC Dennis : How about guest rafflers. AFC TAG : <--has no cat, but recently spotted mice in the computer room :) AFC Dennis : AFL Bear.....in honor of your past role here at MUT would you do the first drawing for ONE free copy of AutoDoubler, complements of DHeller. AFC Dennis : How about it AFL Bear ? AFL Bear : Sure! AFL Bear : Hold whilst I stir the virtual hat... AFC Dennis : I thought you were hibernating again ! AFC Dennis : Good. AFL Bear : (I was. The pizza just came.) AFC Dennis : Hold on folks....here is the first winner - AFA DaveAx : Pizza? What flavor? AFL Bear : I feel... AFA GeneS : (And what toppings?) AFL Bear : ... and east-coaster... AFC TAG : Pineapple Pizza? AFL Bear : (Just extra cheese...) Bob Slo : Oh a purist huh!! :{) AFL Bear : (The dog wanted some, and can't stand jalapeno's) AFL Bear : :0 AFL Bear : I feel it's a Juris Doctor! AFL Bear : Sharon! AFL Bear : Congrats!!!! Bob Slo : Congrats Sharon! AFL Bear : (Here's hoping you have a Mac!) AFC Dennis : Yeah for Sharon. No lawsuit tonight ! :) AFC Dennis : (Just kiddin) AFC Dennis : Thank you Bear. You did that so well ! AFL Bear : Well, she did come wearing her 'law suit.' AFC Dennis : DHeller, am I right to think there is another AD out there for another lucky person ? AFC TAG : I would like to say that we had a very well behaved group tonight, lawyers included :) Bob Slo : Maybe she'll be able to figure out all the legalese on the disk envelope!! :{) SharonJD : No lawsuits, need to graduate in may. Of course I have a Mac. AFC Dennis : (Sharon....please Email you name and address to DHeller and he will see to it that you get your prize) AFL Bear : (So you can use AutoDoubler to get back some disk space, no?) AFC Dennis : Okay....now we go to AFL Rod....the big game boy....to ask him to be our next raffler. AFC Dennis : Okay AFL Rod.... AFL Bear : tap, tap, tap... testing... (Maybe his pizza just came...) AFC Dennis : I think he is getting his magic cap on.... SharonJD : I'm new to this, how do I E-mail? AFC Dennis : YO AFL Rod ! AFL Rod : downloading so kinda slow .. Bob Slo : <--- always needs any computer programs time etc FREE!! :{) AFL Bear : (Command-M) AFL Bear : to mail. AFL Rod : my cat just picked the winner AFL Rod : and ... AFC Dennis : Okay AFL Rod....will you do the honors of picking the next Auto Doubler winner. AFL Rod : it is.. AFL Rod : UofA Cats UofA Cats : Awesome Bob Slo : Congrats UofA! AFC Dennis : Okay...thanks to Rod and his cat....and DHeller we have another winner. AFC Dennis : Great going ! UofA Cats : Thank you AFC Dennis : And now we go to AFA GeneS....who will consult his WIGI board for the winner of three free hours. MacIdeas7 : Congrats, "cats"! AFC Dennis : (WofaCats) Send your name and address to DHeller please. AFL Rod : and the fact that UofA let Cal win had nothing to do with it. MacIdeas7 : It's "oija"! AFC Dennis : AFA GeneS....can you see us all the way out there from Arizona ? AFC Dennis : I couldn't spell that if I tried MacIdeas ! AFC Dennis : Oija! SquareOne : Ouija Bob Slo : Its ouija! AFC Dennis : Okay....Ouija....sorry I mentioned it :( MacIdeas7 : Obviously, me, neither! AFC Dennis : AFA Gene....are you breathing the same air as we ? AFA GeneS : I'm breathing the same air, but I was away.. AFC TAG : LOL AFA GeneS : from the machine. But the air is a bit cleaner. AFC Dennis : Okay then....Gene....will you please do the honor of picking the winner of three free hours ? AFA GeneS : And I can see for miles and miles... AFA GeneS : Sure what must I do. AFC Dennis : See for miles and miles and pick a winner ! Bob Slo : Gene can you see all the way to Peoria, IL PLEASE!! :{) AFC Dennis : A non-overhead account Gene..... MacIdeas7 : Methinks the "air" is a bit "thin" up there... AFA GeneS : Well, I am breathing carefully, and slowly.... AFA GeneS : and saying OM..... AFA GeneS : and meditating for a message in the ether as it were.... AFA GeneS : yes...the vibrations are coming through now.... Bob Slo : <--- good at groveling :{) AFA GeneS : slowly I see the letters appearing before... AFC Dennis : Finally ! AFA GeneS : my very eyes..... AFA GeneS : Ah... AFA GeneS : The winner is..... AFA GeneS : Doris! AFC TAG : <--said ohm and farad, shocking Bob Slo : Congrats Doris! MacIdeas7 : Yea! Doris, Congrats! AFA GeneS : Congratulations! AFL Bear : I'm an optimist... I just say 'mho'... DorisB9429 : Thank you. Doris AFA GeneS : Mostly I say money,money, money, but nobody hears me. AFL Bear : (only true wireheads will get that...) Bob Slo : I'm not going away mad, just going away! See you all later! :{) MacIdeas7 : Goodnight folks! AFC Dennis : Congratulations to all our winners. Thanks to our benefactors....and I ask you..... AFC Dennis : Does anybody know what time it is? AFC Dennis : Does anybody know what time it is? AFC Dennis : Does anybody know what time it is? AFC TAG : 12:30:21 AM AFL Bear : :burp: Malox time... AFA GeneS : I didn't know what time it was.. MacIdeas7 : Time for "contributions" to our governments deficit? AFC Paul : Its PARTY time! AFC Dennis : ITS FREE CHAT TIME WHERE ANYBODY CAN SAY ANYTHING, ANYTIME. AFA GeneS : Speak for yourself MacIdeas7! AFC Dennis : Protocol is over....but do stick around ! AFA GeneS : (stick, stick!) MacIdeas7 : Oh, we'll ALL "get it" eventually... AFA GeneS : We already have. MacIdeas7 : Amen! AFC TAG : Love my Quantum GO 120:) Now if Mirror fixes my main HD, I will be in Mac Heaven again;) AFA GeneS : What's wrong with your main drive? AFC TAG : My main drive was a Mirror portable and it just died, refused to spin AFA GeneS : Under warranty? AFC TAG : Yes, fortunately :) AFA GeneS : I haven't lost a drive--yet. But the ones I have now are relatively new. (I sold the older ones off before they gave trouble.) AFC TAG : Well, the only other drive I had that died was a Profile 5 meg :) AFA GeneS : I don't remember anything that small since my days in traditional typography. FredAR : Anyone know of unusual problems with the Scrapbook with System 6.08 AFL Rod : had a 80 meg quantum that was having a problem spinning up in IIx, but in an external case it has AFA GeneS : Fred: What kind of unusual problems? AFL Rod : been working fine for months. :) AFA DaveAx : Well....enough for one evening....g'night, all . AFA GeneS : Maybe your problem was the IIx, Rod. AFA GeneS : Night Dave. AFL Rod : ::knocking on wood:: AFL Bear : Cioders, Dave! AFC TAG : That's interesting, Rod. My defunct Mirror was a Quanrtum in an external drive... FredAR : With certain applications I can't past anything into it (not enough memory, even when running 4MB... AFL Rod : new drive has not had any problems there. AFC TAG : case, I mean FredAR : ...and regular finder. Appls like Navigator SharonJD : Just bought a IIsi, any words of warning? AFL Rod : new drive = 230 meg quantum AFA GeneS : IIsi? No, relax and enjoy. AFC TAG : Don't worry if the sound stops sounding, Sharon FredAR : Not always the same appls either. Enough roon on the HD, but not too much AFL Bear : Sharon, use conductive grease on the speaker contacts... AFC TAG : The IIsi has an internal speaker problem AFL Bear : (just kidding - don't do that...) ;) FredAR : If no ideas, I'll continue to explore. AFA GeneS : Quantum 230 on my Quadra 800 is fast!!! AFC TAG : I use external Walkman type speakers on my IIsis AFA GeneS : Fred: Maybe you just need to replace the Scrapbook DA or the file got corrupted.... SharonJD : Since I have no idea how to grase the speaker contact's, externals are probably a better idea FredAR : Never been the same since 6.04. Also never had system 7 on this drive. System and Scrapbook replaced AFA GeneS : What about the Scrapbook file itself? FredAR : several times, all the usual stuff. Even a new system. No luck. AFC TAG : Another solution, Sharon is to rap on the box near the speaker (near the apple logo) UofA Cats : Can the IIsi utilize a second internal HD? I have a 40 meg HD and found I need more? AFA GeneS : Try this with your inits off, Fred. Maybe something is affecting memory management. FredAR : Scrapbook file will be OK for a while then get corrupted so i have now about 5 of them. SharonJD : that worked well on my SE, but since the si is new, I don't think I'll try it just yet. FredAR : I might try installing new system with all inits off and using several apple with a new scrapbook... AFC TAG : Well, I have 2 IIsis and they are both trouble free after 2 years FredAR : ...but how do I combine the old data into a good Scrsapbook, even it this works AFC TAG : except for the sound defect UofA Cats : Sharon, if you just toggle the sound vol in the sound CDEV the sound will work again. FredAR : I hae no ResEdit template for the file map, teven though I could combine the resources. AFC TAG : That works too, UoA AFC TAG : afk AFA GeneS : Maybe you are just trying to put too much into that Scrabook file. Have you thought of doing this another way? What kind of files are you trying to save? SharonJD : Thanks for the info. This is my 1st time in the forum and it's been great. Do you usually meet late FredAR : It sometimes gets over 230 items. Any online diagnostic files or fixer applications? SharonJD : Sat. night AFL Rod : isn't there an Fkey that does the sound toggle for the IIsi problem? AFA GeneS : I can think of NOW Scrapbook, from the NOW Utilities package, but you must run system 7.... to use that software. It has more flexibility than the basic scrapbook. I think it's just a matter... of trying to cram to much into it in your case. UofA Cats : AFC TAG, have you had a problem with your IIsi's locking up for almost no reason? AFA GeneS : Listen folks, sleepy time calls. Catch you all later. AFL Bear : Later, Gene! UofA Cats : AFL Rod, yes there is an FKEY that will fix the sound prob. Its in the downloads. FredAR : Just saving standard text and some PICTs AFC TAG : My IIsi's are well behaved usually :) AFC TAG : The Fkey toggles the Cdev sound volume AFC TAG : no protocol Steve UofA Cats : Is it possible that too much static will cause a system crash? FredAR : No support person at the user groups have helped with the Scrapbook either. Well, time to get some work done. Sweet dreams. AFC TAG : Sunspots is my theory Cats :) UofA Cats : Nite Sharon, and congrats! AFC TAG : TTFN, JD;() SteveG1948 : Does anyone know of a PICT viewer that rotates Photo CD images? UofA Cats : Thanks AFC Tag FredAR : too much static can cause a Mac to go bad, system crash is also poessible. Avoid static discharge. UofA Cats : How can I avoid? (short of buying new carpet) AFC TAG : Whenever I hear of Mac system crashes, I remember the old joke about Windows: By the time Windows AFC TAG : loads, you can crash your Mac three times :) FredAR : Dump the carpet. Some people use sprays. Ground your desk and put a conductiv ecoating on it then... AFL Bear : Wear a clean suit... ;) FredAR : ...touch the coating whenever you sit down or move around in your seat etc. AFC TAG : If you really want to avoid crashes: turn of all inits, don't use shareware programs, don't use AFC TAG : compression utilities, etc... how boring... MEpstein : now that's not fair, many shareware programs are more compatible than some commercial programs! (Word) AFL Bear : and don't use EvenBetterBusError... ;) FredAR : dirt doesn't cause static, "clean suit" does; ironic ain't it AFC TAG : I knew someone would catch that :) AFL Rod : you forgot don't use version X.0 of micrsoft programs Tag ScottTBoyd : I hear that EvenBetterBusError causes lots of crashes :-) AFC TAG : :) Rod, Gates has a new policy that all release versions will be version 3.0 or higher AFL Bear : (... with apologies to Greg.) MEpstein : Hey, I swear by EvenBetterBusError! I can't stand not crashing every few minutes! :) AFL Bear : I have to learn Macsbug somewhow... ScottTBoyd : Greg gets a good laugh just about every day because someone sends in a bug report on EBBE.. . AFC TAG : It's the ...unexpectedly quit... that really annoys me... AFL Bear : LOL! ScottTBoyd : which reads "There's a bug in EBBE. I know because I crash in EBBE code and I don't crash when I ... ScottTBoyd : take it out." AFL Bear : :) AFL Bear : There muist be a relation somwhere... MEpstein : So that's why I'm crashing! I wondered why my Apple dealer put a copy of EBBE after "fixing" my Mac!;) AFC TAG : Like: "your housekeeper unexpectedly quit, type a letter to her mother and promise not to leave pizza ScottTBoyd : For the uninitiated, EBBE is a programmer tool for finding bugs in other programs. It drops into... AFC TAG : in the bathroom any more" ScottTBoyd : the debugger when it sees a program doing a specific kind of bad thing. AFL Bear : I'm outahere, people. Ciaoders! (I'm off to to bad things, too.) AFC TAG : Well, goodnight to all. It was wonderful! ScottTBoyd : Outta here AFL Rod : nite all 3/7/93 1:21:25 AM Closing Log file.